[Konvas] Decent Tripod/Support System for a Konvas?

Sat Sep 20 15:13:12 CDT 2008

I own a Arri tripod –it´s a Cartoni OEM named Arri FL7

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Von: cinema-bounces at konvas.org [mailto:cinema-bounces at konvas.org] Im Auftrag
von H. W. Stone
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 19:31
An: cinema at konvas.org
Betreff: Re: [Konvas] Decent Tripod/Support System for a Konvas?

Mixing my replies into your message--

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Frey <thefirstrule at chainsawlinux.com>
To: Konvas Discussion List <cinema at konvas.org>
Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:54 am
Subject: [Konvas] Decent Tripod/Support System for a Konvas?

I've been wanting to get a new (or used in decent condition) tripod/head
combo for quite a while now, but haven't gotten around to doing so for
several reasons, the biggest of which is, of course, related to a slightly
malnourished wallet. 

The second reason is that there are so many to choose from, I want to make
sure that I get the right one. 

There is no such thing as "the right one."  There are working limits and
uses for tripods, and mix, match, and whole new items are common.

The third reason is that, if I'm going to spend [insert: more than just a
little bit of] good cash on one, then I'd want to invest in a decent system
that can work with me as business expands and for the next umpteen plus
years. BUT, if there are decent tripods out there to be had for under $500
that can also do a good job, then it might be worth getting that instead and
upgrading in the future. 

I'd like to invest in something that can handle my needs, which include
EVERYTHING: from time-lapse (and stop-motion animation), to a fully loaded
Konvas 1M, to a basic HDV rig (currently my Sony Z1U). I'd like it to be
able to handle a jib arm as well (preferably, a jib arm that can hold my
fully loaded Konvas - is that *too* much to ask for?). 

For the stop motion work it depends on which camera you are using--  general
rule is that if you can move the tripod by yourself it is too light for stop
motion work.

Each head and type of head has a different working weight.   The small,
light cameras you mention would be lost on top of a major tripod since there
are MINIMUM weights for the heads.  A CamHead III on a Quickset Hercules is
blah and not particularly good until the camera on it reaches about twenty
five pounds-- at which point the loading makes it one of the smoothest,
quickest, easiest working heads out there, and one that works from -40
degrees up to the point water is boiling.

Yes, I have a couple of them, and I love them, but they are NOT for a little
old Konvas unless it has a four hundred foot mag AND a huge zoom, matte box,
support rails, and you are putting the battery on the head with the camera--
and it is an oversize battery.  The right tripod/head weight for Quickset
with a Konvas is the Samson series.  

I also want a smooth head - I'm tired of using heads that do just "okay".
You know the heads I'm talking about - the ones that allow you to
ever-so-slightly jerk it at some point during the pan (it's always
frustrating when I see that in my post-process). 

So, basically, my ideal tripod would, preferably, be affordable and could do
everything under the Sun (btw: I'm also hoping that the temperature in Hell
hits 0 degrees Celcius and that Pigs will grow wings). 

With all that said, I know Todd really loves his Oconnor, and I have to say,
looking at the load limits, Oconnor can handle some heavy rigs: 
http://www.ocon.com/products/tripods.html 

I have a couple of older Oconnor tripods, and I like them much better than
the newer models-- they work well for the Frezzi HW-16e or the Konvas, but
the "pan" heads do not lock down, period, ever.  The locking heads don't pan
worth a nickel, plugged or not.

QuickSet tripods are also pretty heavy duty: 
http://www.quickset.com/pages/ultra_stable_tripods/63.php 

A camhead III on a Herc will easily handle forty eight pounds plus of
Auricon Super 1200 with a full mag, Angenieux Zoom, blimp, AND the battery
with it on the head.  If you want to lock it down go to the geared heads
Quickset makes.  I like the old brass or bronze gear heads from several
Hollywood suppliers, but for stop motion the Quickset is great.  I cannot
find a K series bronze head, the only one with pins that drop in to lock it
in place-- and the Quickset works as well.  I still want another large brass
or bronze gear head "just because" but it would only be used on a Gibraltar
tripod with a fully decked out Kinor 35C and anamorphics-- it is overkill
and un-smooth for lighter cameras. 

And, of course, there are quite a few other ENG/MoPic tripods to look at as
well, including: 
Miller (http://millertripods.com) 
Cartoni (http://cartoni.com) 
Slik Daiwa (http://slikbroadcast.com) 
Vinten (http://www.vinten.com) 

Millers are good, the heads need more service than Oconnor or Quickset.
Cartoni is overpriced for the size and use-- not bad, but overpriced.  Daiwa
is great until the first time you need anything done to it-- at which point
you wave bye-bye as heads off for a long, long, long time.   Vinten is way
too high, heavier than Quickset, but they also "badge" other brands, so you
may find a Manfrotto leg set with a Russell head, both bearing Vinten
nameplates-- and you want to avoid Russell heads. 

I'd have included Bogen/Manfrotto (http://manfrotto.com), but I'm not so
sure that they make one that can handle a fully loaded Konvas, especially if
I'm going to add a sound-proof Barney to it (and speaking of Barneys, I've
got some great pics from Pierre Sam that I'm going to upload to the site
sometime in the near future). 

The big Manfrotto leg sets work well for up to about twenty pounds-- Konvas
without the blimp.  I have two or three Manfrotto/Bogen leg and head sets,
good for 16/super16 and unblimped Konvas.  I seldom use one, mostly shoving
them aside for the Gitzo 400C Studex with an R3 cine head on it-- less
weight, taller, smoother over the four to twenty pound range, just the price
of a small car.   A Studex with two heads would come really, really close to
what you are talking about.  Here is one point the weight of the camera
system is a vital part of the choice process--  the medium Manfrotto or
Gitzo is what you need for that HDV toy, not the real tripods.  Unless there
is enough load weight they are rough, un-smooth, or just jerky.  For the toy
camera get a good lightweight tripod, don't use a big one.

So, the question seems to be four-fold: 
1) What tripods/tripod systems do you think can handle my needs? 

Go with your gut AFTER you play with it. 

2) What tripod/tripod system is the best bang for the buck? 

If you take your time and shop, Quickset on eBay--  people just don't know
them, and they are "too big" for most people.

3) What heads are recommended? (Geared or Fluid Head?)   

Depends on what you plan to do with it, but one of each sounds better than
one or the other.  The "smooth non fluid friction heads" by Oconnor, Vinten,
and Quickset cost more than the fluid heads, but work over more extreme
conditions. 

4) Can I use a head from one manufacturer and a tripod from another, or
should I stick with one brand? 

I highly recommend mix and match to get what you want-- but somehow wound up
with single brand sets in most cases.

I have a few older wooden tripods that I've collected and used/abused over
the years, but they are (mostly) older and, by now, extremely well used. At
this point, I've started working on the wooden legs with some really good
glue and the heads are in need of some major TLC - should I send them out
for repairs or forget about them? 

A good wooden tripod is a blessing-- I have wooden Miller, National, and
unknown, and love them.  Head repairs or replacement have no relationship to
what the legs are made of, but I just rebuilt an Oconnor 50 wooden leg set
and showed someone how it worked.  Now I need to figure out how to get it
back from her.  One day shooting with it and she wants older wooden legs
over new metal.  They do feel better and work as well if not better. 

I've also had a few "cheaper" video tripods that have done okay for the
lighter cameras, but are also showing wear and tear. I believe it's getting
to be time to start looking to move on to something better.  

Unless it is a magic brand I have never heard of, none of the cheaper video
tripods are that good, but then, several people I know put Manfrotto and
Miller into the cheap group, too.

BTW: Can anyone think of other tripods that are geared toward the MoPic
industry? I plan on creating a page on Konvas.org for tripods, heads, and
supports, as they are a very big part of our work. 

>From time to time Arri has had a tripod line, the Auricon tripods are
amazing, the Houston Fearless could be used as a first line tripod today,
and the Fearless II is the basis for the Quickset Gibraltar--  National,
Wayne, and Mitchell all sold great tripods-- but are hard to find because
about the only way they are sold is as part of an estate sale.  They are
liked that well, and are that good. 

Thanks, 

Adam Frey 
Director/Cinematographer 
Crimson Chain Productions 
http://crimsonchain.com 

Crimson Chain Productions 
PO Box 35 
Libertytown, MD 21762 

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