[Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

Fri Apr 10 21:56:00 CDT 2009

Oh really?, I'm sorry, I figure SAC being at DEFCON 2 was about as close to all out nuclear war as you can get without an actual ongoing or   imminent attack on US military forces or US territory by a foreign military power that would require a full nuclear retaliation. BTW from those that were THERE: 

"Nuclear catastrophe was hanging by a thread ... and we weren't counting days or hours, but minutes."

	-Soviet General and Army Chief of Operations, Anatoly Gribkov 
"We were a hair's breath from absolute disaster"

                               - Former US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara 

There are currently about 25,000 nuclear weapons on earth, and it would only take about 350 to wipe the United States of the map. 

Nuclear Cap.1964 

               Launchers               Warheads                Megatonnage

            USA        USSR         USA        USSR         USA        USSR

            2412       375           6800       500          7500       1000

Recent studies have shown that as few as 100 Hiroshima equivalent yield weapons in a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan alone could result in as many as 1 billion deaths world wide due to severe climate changes resulting in famine, disease, civil conflict and war. 

You obviously know NOTHING about just how DAMN  close we came to annihilating the entire world and how the world was saved by a freakin' JOURNALIST and a Soviet spy! Georgi Bolshakov a Soviet Intelligence officer, relayed messages between the Soviets and Americans via Robert Kennedy and American journalist Frank Holeman.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2007/0709/whit/white_rfk.html

http://www.booknotes.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1060

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/38/pbk200.shtml

http://www.hpol.org/jfk/cuban/

http://www.jfklibrary.org/jfkl/cmc/cmc_correspondence.html

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/audio.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/11046/days/index.html

September 1961
As part of a campaign to
reduce the United States' vulnerability to nuclear attack, President
Kennedy advised Americans to build fallout shelters. President
Kennedy's letter in the September issue of Life magazine set off a wave
of "shelter mania" which lasted for about a year.

At this time,
the Soviet Union also unexpectedly exploded the largest nuclear device
in history, equal to 57 million tons of TNT—scaled down from its initial 100 Mt design by 50% the Soviet Union had
voluntarily stopped testing nuclear devices three years before, and
Khrushchev had assured President Kennedy in June 1961 that the Soviet
Union wouldn't test nuclear devices if the United States didn't.

The Soviets not only had the capability to destroy the US, they had missiles in Cuba that were operational and could hit and annihilate a very large part of the Eastern US before any warnings could be issued, a blockage is in fact an act of war, Khrushchev had a falling out with controlling elements of the Soviet Prolatariet for making jestures towards Kennedy and in their eyes making the Soviet stance look week, The Soviet and Cuban soldiers in Cuba  fired on Amereican aircraft and shot down an American U2, killing Major Rudolf Anderson, An American destroyer had fired on a Soviet Nuclear submarine in the area of the Cuban Missile crisis,  

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/dobbs/index.htm

Soviet Submariines with nuclear torpedoes were deployed in the area. The soviets had  IL-28 nuclear bombers based in Cuba. I don't know what YOU consider a "Heartbeat away" but IIII'LLL go with McNamara's "hair's breath away" assesmsnt as a guide. 

To: cinema at konvas.org
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 08:23:24 -0400
From: colcam at aim.com
Subject: Re: [Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

 Tha last time I saw Dr. Strangelove was June of last year.

No, we were NOT within one heartbeat of the end of the world during the Cuban missile crisis.  There was tension, it was an incredibly dangerous time, but lines of communication were kept open, and extra effort was made by both sides to ensure that no "hot head" could do anything.  Where were you during the Cuban missle crisis, and how much of the actual material did you know then and post?  

No, it was not comfortable, but I get wound up over people who "buy into" the doomsday scenario where we tettered on the edge of hell; the people who accept outright lies and deception as part of a paranoia.   We did not "luck" through the Cold War-- both sides worked through it.

-----Original Message-----

From: steve beverly <capt.video at hotmail.com>

To: cinema at konvas.org

Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 2:14 am

Subject: Re: [Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

Yes and during the Cuban Missile Crisis we were ALL one heartbeat away from being turned into radio active crispy critters DISPITE all of these "precautions". The whole point of that fil
m is not how accurate the procedures were, it's that the 2 most powerful nations on Earth were now capable of destroying ALL human life in a matter of hours all because of differing political philosophies and thee TOTAL absurdity and insanity of such a situation. Ridicule is a MOST appropriate response to that kind of madness. 

BTW the only Kubrick film I didn't care for was The Killing. I kinda think I wouldn't have cared for Eyes Wide Shut, but I still haven't had the desire to sit down and watch it yet. I will at some point if for no other reason than to confirm my suspicions. I ALSO didn't care all that much for AI and even though Speilberg said he followed as closely as possible, Kubrick's blueprint, it still came off as more a Speilberg film than a Kubrick film which is, I supose, to be expected. I can't help wondering though, if Kibrick had lived to direct this dark material, IFG I would have liked it any better. I usually love Speiberg's work but, this one missed the mark for me and I think it was because it was totally unfamailar territory for Spielberg. Thinking about it, maybe Lynch is the only director aside from Kubrick that could have really pulled that one off.  

From: overtoom at mac.com

To: cinema at konvas.org

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 21:41:35 -0700

Subject: Re: [Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

Hey, when exactly was the last time you=2
0saw

Strangelove?  Because in your post you

you describe in detail all the "fail-safe" 

thinking the film debunks.  You should watch

It again-- maybe you didn't realize it was

funny the first time around? It's exactly the 

human factor that screws the layers of 

redundant logic.  Isn't that the point of the

film?  

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 7, 2009, at 8:39 PM, "H. W. Stone" <colcam at aim.com> wrote:

 Very, very quietly-- before the Soviets popped their first nuke-- Truman and Stalin exchanged messages and traded policy materials on control of the weapons to ensure the military could not take things into its own hands, and then Eisenhower and Khrushchev talked, and the top echelon of the US nuke program and the Soviet Nuke program sat down to share "how to make sure no one could hijack and set off a weapon without the orders coming from the top."  The codes, layers of responsibility, the way security was chosen for the facilities-- all of it was carefully worked on in cooperation to make sure no one could hijack a nuke and go boom.  

That included layers of security to prevent internal attempts to take control of a base, and visits to training and exercises including checking the presence of actual nukes.

Both sides had extreme psych te
sting to ensure that keying was done at too far of a distance for one person to do it, and that it required keys and codes so ONLY the correct person on hand at that time, knowing how the system worked, with the right upper codes and his shift codes and the keys could handle one half of the activation process.  

There was NO way ANY of it could have taken place, and if a plane with nukes on it headed outward there was an immediate "call the other side and arrange the destruction of the aircraft" so fighters from both sides would isolate and destroy it before it got anywhere near anything bigger than a crossroads with a stop sign.  

Trying to carefully control the hysteria was a difficult job, but the military was totally under civilian control on both sides.  

Dr. Strangelove created a level of distrust, paranoia, and problems that took decades to ease.

It was stupid, it was a political statement, and it made things worse by a huge amount.

They thought about this, set up proceedures to prevent it, and both sides were trying to keep the knee jerk reactionary types away from the devices starting BEFORE the Soviets popped one.

It was insulting to the men on both sides who risked their lives working on it, the shared US-Soviet "broken arrow" program, and it bothers me that the cost of freedom includes this kind of work.

=0
A

-----Original Message-----

From: Sean McVeigh <konvas at smallpony.ca>

To: Konvas Discussion List <cinema at konvas.org>

Sent: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:44 pm

Subject: Re: [Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

"Gentlemen!  You can't fight in here.. this is the war room!!"

what's not to love?

On 7-Apr-09, at 7:04 PM, H. W. Stone wrote:

The "core" of Dr. Strangelove is pure stupidity-- in terms of action, a horrible parody of behaviors, and the premise was something that could not take place.  It was a sorry political statement, done at the most irrational portion of the cold war, and in direct defiance of the attempts by both sides to make sure such an event was impossible.

It actually hurt the chances of peace by fanning irrational fears.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Cordle <d
ancordle at hotmail.com>

To: Cinema Konvas <cinema at konvas.org>

Sent: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 6:45 pm

Subject: Re: [Konvas] and the winner is......? (Barry Lyndon)

Did no one enjoy Dr. Strangelove. The trailer alone makes me want to rent it: 

http://www.zuguide.com/index.php#Dr-Strangelove-or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-Bomb 

Dan Cordle 

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