Konvas List Discussions: Nov 2001
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From dgig1 at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 18:08:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: grey konvas cam
From: dgig1 at hotmail.com
Date: Nov 01, 2001 10:08 PST
Hi Are the older grey konvas cams worth buying . Ive seen a lot of them
being sold on ebay . Also is the movement and steadiness the same when
compared to an more modern 1m . I do understand that the 17ep motor is
more reliable . So what actually separates the two. Older konvas from
the newer 1m . thanks
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From Christian Fri Nov 2 17:48:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: grey konvas cam
From: Christian Locke
Date: Nov 02, 2001 09:48 PST
Hi together,
next week I´ve a meeting with the chief manager of Orwo, Germany...
I´ve somebody have some special questions, so let me know ...
Greetings from the Cologne Filmhaus, germany
Christian Locke
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
----------------------------------------
From Wylie Fri Nov 2 20:19:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: grey konvas cam
From: Wylie Sammy F Civ 88 ABW/LCMPS/MPPL
Date: Nov 02, 2001 12:19 PST
Christian,
Very cool!
Please let them know we use their DP-3 and DP-31 (at the Library of Congress, Motion Picture Conservation Center) and to keep up the good work!
S. Frank Wylie
Laboratory Supervisor
Library of Congress
Motion Picture Preservation Laboratory
All opinions expressed are my own and do not represent the official view of the Library of Congress
----------------------------------------
From Christoph Sun Nov 4 00:00:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Konvas and Animation
From: Christoph
Date: Nov 03, 2001 16:00 PST
Do you know if the Konvas can be modified to shoot single frames?
thank you for the help
Christoph
----------------------------------------
From matt Sun Nov 4 00:54:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: matt uhry
Date: Nov 03, 2001 16:54 PST
Christoph wrote:
>
>
> Do you know if the Konvas can be modified to shoot single frames?
> thank you for the help
> Christoph
>
You could shoot single frames quite easily with the correct stepper
motor
but the konvas's design is not good as far as light leaking around the
mirror shutter. Animation cameras usually have focal plane shutters for
this
reason. A frame counter is nice for animation too. Mitchells are
great for
animation and cost a similar amount as a nice Konvas, it would be a
better
choice in all respects. Beware of "white" mitchells which were uses to
film
early Atomic bomb blasts and are radioactive.
Matt
--
Matt Uhry - Director of Photography
http://www.fuzby.com/
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Sun Nov 4 01:29:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 03, 2001 17:29 PST
matt uhry wrote:
>Beware of "white" mitchells which were uses to
>film
>early Atomic bomb blasts and are radioactive.
Um, this is an old wives tale. Most military Mitchells were white
(because they'd stay cooler in the hot desert sun) but very few were used
for bomb blasts.
However, Mitchells typically cost more than a used Konvas. A cheaper
camera that's good for animation (though it lacks the great Mitchell
rackover mechanism) is the B&H 2709, which actually has even better
(fixed pin) registration -- a feature copied by Acme and Oxberry for
their optical printer and animation cameras.
Jeff "does have one Mitchell for sale, but it's black" Kreines
----------------------------------------
From matt Sun Nov 4 01:55:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: matt uhry
Date: Nov 03, 2001 17:55 PST
OOPS!
Jeff busted me, now does anyone know where I could buy some fresh T-stops?
Matt.
--
Matt Uhry - Director of Photography
http://www.fuzby.com/
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Sun Nov 4 01:56:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 03, 2001 17:56 PST
In a message dated 11/3/01 5:30:13 PM, jeffkreines at mindspring.com writes:
<<
... A cheaper camera that's good for animation (though it lacks the great
Mitchell rackover mechanism) is the B&H 2709, which actually has even better
(fixed pin) registration -- a feature copied by Acme and Oxberry for their
optical printer and animation cameras.
>>
Many 2709s (Design Number 27, designed in 1909 CE [ A.D. ] ) were converted
to rack-over.
Most 2709s which are still operational have had the High Speed shuttle
substituted for the legendary "Unit I" shuttle.
First, because it is much quieter than the Unit-I, and, second, because
Unit-I shuttles were robbed for use in VistaVision (8/35) printers.
The Acme shuttle is identical to a Unit-I. The Oxberry is similar in design,
but has a different cam actuator.
In the end, PhotoSonics was making the Unit-I movements for *both* Bell &
Howell and ACME (Producers Service Corporation).
The Oxberry offers better viewing in both its animation and in its optical
printer incarnations.
Expect to pay big bux for a Unit-I-equipped 2709.
Ditto, for an Oxberry.
I've seen complete Oxberry 35mm animation stands at government auctions go
for $600.
Ditto, for Oxberry optical printers.
>>
> Beware of "white" mitchells which were uses to film
> early Atomic bomb blasts and are radioactive.
Um, this is an old wives tale. Most military Mitchells were white
>>
The first CinemaScope film made of an atomic "event" was not done with a Fox
camera, although the lenses were borrowed from Fox.
The Grable "shot", FWIW.
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Sun Nov 4 10:32:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 04, 2001 02:32 PST
matt "see him in the new American Cinematographer" uhry wrote:
>Jeff busted me, now does anyone know where I could buy some fresh T-stops?
Right down the hall from where you get the bucket of sprocket holes.
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Sun Nov 4 16:40:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Konvas and Animation/Atomic Shots
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2001 08:40 PST
In a message dated 11/3/01 5:30:13 PM, jeffkreines at mindspring.com writes:
<<
... A cheaper camera that's good for animation (though it lacks the great
Mitchell rackover mechanism) is the B&H 2709, which actually has even better
(fixed pin) registration -- a feature copied by Acme and Oxberry for their
optical printer and animation cameras.
>>
Many 2709s (Design Number 27, first made in 1909 CE [ A.D. ] , hence 27- +
-09) were converted to rack-over.
Most 2709s which are still operational have had the optional High Speed
shuttle substituted for the legendary "Unit I" shuttle.
First, because it is much quieter than the Unit-I, and, second, because
Unit-I shuttles were being robbed for use in VistaVision (8/35) printers.
The ACME shuttle is identical to a Unit-I. The Oxberry is similar in design,
but has a different cam actuator.
In the end, PhotoSonics (Burbank, CA) was making the Unit-I movements for
*both* Bell & Howell and ACME (Producers Service Corporation).
The Oxberry offers better viewing in both its animation and in its optical
printer incarnations.
Expect to pay big bux for a Unit-I-equipped 2709. Especially one with an
animation motor.
Ditto, for an Oxberry.
However, I've seen complete Oxberry 35mm animation stands at government
auctions go for $600.
Ditto, for Oxberry optical printers.
>>
> Beware of "white" mitchells which were uses to film
> early Atomic bomb blasts and are radioactive.
Um, this is an old wives tale. Most military Mitchells were white
>>
The first CinemaScope film made of an atomic "event" was not done with a Fox
camera, although the anamorphic lenses were borrowed from Fox. The slate
carries the serial number of a government camera, probably a white Mitchell.
The Grable "shot", FWIW. The pan and scan version of that 2.55:1 film is
available on Pete Kuran's "The Atomic Movie".
Also, the "rare earths" used in the formulation of optical glass during the
WW-II and post-WW-II time is often "hot". Often very hot.
Rare earths are also termed transuranic elements, as the origin is probably
uranium-bearing ore.
Uranium is the heaviest element which occurs in nature, and there is a lot of
it ... almost as much as there is lead in the earth's crust.
----------------------------------------
From Christoph Sun Nov 4 19:18:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: jeffkr- at mindspring.com
From: Christoph Runne
Date: Nov 04, 2001 11:18 PST
Jeff,
did you say you have a Mitchell for sale?
How much is it?
also
thanks a lot for your help regarding my question about the Convas.
Regards
Christoph Runne
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Mon Nov 5 04:53:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: jeffkr- at mindspring.com
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 04, 2001 20:53 PST
Christoph Runne wrote:
>did you say you have a Mitchell for sale?
>How much is it?
Christopher:
I have a Mitchell GC for sale -- it's a classic Mitchell Rackover, with a
Nikon mount on one of the turret holes. Recently overhauled with new
paint by Ken Stone. Without motor, with 1 1000 foot mag, $4800. With
Fries crystal motor (up to 128 fps) $6300.
Lots of people use them with a simple stepper motor for animation or time
lapse.
Jeff "Frank, don't worry, it's not #33, which I'd never sell" Kreines
----------------------------------------
From Christoph Mon Nov 5 06:45:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: jeffkr- at mindspring.com
From: Christoph Runne
Date: Nov 04, 2001 22:45 PST
Jeff !
That is a bit out of my price range.
I think I will have to stick to my bolex for now.
thanks
christoph
----------------------------------------
From Wylie Mon Nov 5 13:46:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: jeffkr- at mindspring.com
From: Wylie Sammy F Civ 88 ABW/LCMPS/MPPL
Date: Nov 05, 2001 05:46 PST
> Jeff "Frank, don't worry, it's not #33, which I'd never sell" Kreines
>
Damn Straight! ;-)
Frank
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Mon Nov 5 17:35:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 05, 2001 09:35 PST
Hello everybody,
If anyone interested in subject item, please taek a look at eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1293912859
If you want more such gates, feel free to ask me. I'll do my best to
supply you with desired quantities.
--
Best regards,
Rafael
----------------------------------------
From matt Mon Nov 5 17:40:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: matt uhry
Date: Nov 05, 2001 09:40 PST
How about some super 35mm gates and ground glasses?
--
Matt Uhry - Director of Photography
http://www.fuzby.com/
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Mon Nov 5 18:31:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2001 10:31 PST
In a message dated 11/5/01 9:40:58 AM, matt at fuzby.com writes:
<<
How about some super 35mm gates and ground glasses?
>>
S-35 is usually shot with a conventional plate, but with a ground glass which
indicates 1.37, 1.85 and 2.35.
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Mon Nov 5 21:05:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Extolling the virtue of modern mail
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 05, 2001 13:05 PST
To All-
I dont know how many of us have dealt with Olexandr
Kalynychenko before, but i just wanted to take the
time to thank him for his very quick and efficient
service. I have never seen a package sent from the
Ukraine to the US this quickly without 'special'
arrangements.... In a nutshell, I have been searching
for certain electronic replacement components for
several months, and have failed to be able to procure
it from both American and European electronics houses
that had told me it was definitely 'in stock' ....
Olexandr was able to get it to me inside of less than
a week. Bravo! It is a testament to why this list is
so important-....
Many thanks (and much gratitude also)
Todd Liebman
----------------------------------------
From Rick Tue Nov 6 01:00:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rick Garbutt
Date: Nov 05, 2001 17:00 PST
Ummm, sorry, Matt, but 'tain't so.
Super35 uses a special aperture gate which puts image on the ENTIRE space
available between the perforations (24mm). The groundglass has to be
modified to reflect the fact that picture now occupies the space that would
normally carry the optical soundtrack, as well as the entire normal picture
area. Super35 is usually used for the 1.33 Television Safe aspect ratio, but
the additional width of picture can also be used for 1.85 and anamorphic ARs
as well.
Interestingly, a wonderful process called TechniSCOPE (a 2-perf pulldown)
has used the entire width of film between the perfs since its inception in
the early 1960s. Films like Clint Eastwood's spaghetti westerns and
AMERICAN GRAFFITI were shot in the TScope format.
Check out your American Cinematographer Handbook....
Regards,
Rick Garbutt, soc
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Tue Nov 6 01:26:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 05, 2001 17:26 PST
Rick Garbutt wrote:
>Interestingly, a wonderful process called TechniSCOPE (a 2-perf pulldown)
>has used the entire width of film between the perfs since its inception in
>the early 1960s.
And, of course, full aperture (silent) film uses the entire image area,
so very old cameras are all set up for Super 35.
----------------------------------------
From matt Tue Nov 6 01:31:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: matt uhry
Date: Nov 05, 2001 17:31 PST
Hey Rick,
I think this post goes to peterh5322,
I am very, very, aware of how super 35 happens, but my post asking
for a super 35 G.G. and Gate remains.
would be curious if you can fit Super 35 area onto the Prism/Groundglass
thing our konvas's have. And if you were to mill the gate would it have
any metal on the right side left? Some of you guys have super 35 konvas's
how about putting your gates and GG's on a scanner so we can take a look?
Matt
--
Matt Uhry - Director of Photography
http://www.fuzby.com/
----------------------------------------
From Rick Tue Nov 6 01:56:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rick Garbutt
Date: Nov 05, 2001 17:56 PST
As a follow-up, anyone who's interested can find an excellent discussion of
Super35, including engineering info, the pros and cons, as well as some
Cameraman Legends debunked in the 7th edition of the American
Cinematographer Manual, pages 20 - 25, written by Ron Hummel, with input
from Stephen H Burum, ASC, Harrison Ellenshaw, and Evans Westmore. If you
don't know who these authorities are, you should...
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Tue Nov 6 02:24:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2001 18:24 PST
In a message dated 11/5/01 5:26:45 PM, jeffkreines at mindspring.com writes:
<<
>Interestingly, a wonderful process called TechniSCOPE (a 2-perf pulldown)
>has used the entire width of film between the perfs since its inception in
>the early 1960s.
And, of course, full aperture (silent) film uses the entire image area,
so very old cameras are all set up for Super 35.
>>
As usual, "it depends".
Techniscope was only viable as a circa 1960s wide screen format because
Technicolor, which invented the format at it's Rome labs, and which
controlled the format by it's own internal procedures, made the release
prints by the "direct to matrix" method, which, of course, only Tech could
provide.
S-35 has its origins in circa 1955's SuperScope, which, in various
incarnations was:
1) a full aperture-based production format,
2) a 1.5X anamorphic release format,
3) a 2X anamorphic release format, and
4) a "flat wide-screen" release format, more-or-less compatible with any
extant FWS release format.
Both Silent optical centers and Academy optical centers were employed, at
various stages.
And, the 2X 2.00:1 anamorphic release prints used a left and right mask on
the prints. But the 1.5X 2.00:1 anamorphic release prints (abandoned) did not.
One reason for NOT changing a gate (from 1.37) is avoidance of accumulation
of crud in the gate within the action area.
Sure, the crud will accumulate anyway, but it will not impact a 1.66 or 1.85
extraction if the gate is retained as 1.37.
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Tue Nov 6 04:30:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 05, 2001 20:30 PST
Check out the pix of Matt Z's Ostcam on Patrick
Steele's site- there is a nice shot of his S35
gate....
http://homepage.mac.com/karmitz/
Look under Pictures...
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Tue Nov 6 05:17:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re[2]: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 05, 2001 21:17 PST
Hello haab,
Tuesday, November 06, 2001, 6:30:10 AM, you wrote:
hec> Check out the pix of Matt Z's Ostcam on Patrick
hec> Steele's site- there is a nice shot of his S35
hec> gate....
hec> http://homepage.mac.com/karmitz/
hec> Look under Pictures...
Link doesn't work.
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Tue Nov 6 05:21:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Re[2]: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 05, 2001 21:21 PST
You are right- I stand corrected!
Try this instead...
http://homepage.mac.com/karmitz/zatkoff.htm
----------------------------------------
From Rick Tue Nov 6 07:38:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: Rick Garbutt
Date: Nov 05, 2001 23:38 PST
Matt, you are 100% correct: it shows me I should be more careful where I
click.
ONE WORD OF CAUTION about ad-hoc modification of cameras to the Super35
format: it is, strictly speaking, NOT ENOUGH to simply change out the
aperture plate and groundglass. STRICTLY speaking, the lens mount should be
modified so as to recenter the optical axis on the new, wider aperture.
(The identical question arises when converting regular 16mm cameras to
Super16.)
In practical terms, this means shifting the mount laterally by an amount
equal to one-half the increase in aperture width. For a lot of purposes,
you could sorta kinda get away without this bit of finesse, but if you do
not,
1. Zooms will not be centered, and it's a subtle, but disturbing effect;
2. Some very wide-angle lenses may vignette at the corners of the new
aperture, whereas they might cover the entire new aperture if properly
recentered;
3. In the unlikely (but nonetheless possible) event you have to set
yourself up with a nodal-point pan (like, oh, say, if you're doing
front-screen projection) you will find this is rather more difficult with
the aperture not centered on the optical axis of the lens. No, make that a
LOT more difficult;
4. Pans aren't really, really, REALLY pans: they're micro-dollies around
the nodal point, with all the perspective-shift baggage that comes with that
sort of thing;
5. And there may be other factors I haven't thought of off the top of my
hat.
But details like the above should be considered, because the Law of Natural
Cussedness of the Universe clearly states that, if you don't, in the
fullness of time, one of them details gonna rise up and bite you in the
butt. It never fails.
All of which begs the question of why have Super35 in the first place.
Anyone who says they can RELIABLY tell the difference between Super35 and
regular 35 in a video transfer has simply been sniffing too much metal
polish. Video just does NOT have the bandwidth to show off the finer grain
and apparent better sharpness of the 15-odd per cent increase in negative
area. If you're going to finish on film, using Super35 in the camera
dictates that you WILL either have an optical reduction neg done (kinda
pointless, as the optical losses and contrast increases outweigh the gain in
reduced grain, which increases anyway over the duplicating stages - see the
ASC article) or you'll simply use the soundtrack to lop off the additional
image area in the prints, in which case, again, what's the point? And if
you're gonna use Super1.85 enlarge-and-crop or do an anamorphic release, why
not go all the way, shoot TechniSCOPE, and save 50% of your stock and
processing costs while you're about it? So why not the REALLY cool idea of
a TechniScope Konvas? After all, they're patterned after the Eclair CM-3,
which could shoot both 4-perf and 2-perf 35mm, as well as 16mm in the same
camera body. (Oooh, those wacky French engineers! Gotta love 'em!)
And yet there will still be folk who babble about being able to see improved
quality with Super35 in a video transfer. Hogwash. Moose muffins.
On the note of details, it's interesting to see there's some variance on the
spelling of the plural of "Konvas". One of them silly linguistic stumbling
blocks. I would offer that, whatever is settled on, it wouldn't use an
apostrophe.
There is not a nominative plural in the language that uses an apostrophe.
I have one cat; I have two cats. (not cat's) I have one VCR; I have 2 VCRs
(not VCR's)
Apostrophes are used to indicate elision (omitting) of letters, as in:
isn't = is not wouldn't = would not
Apostrophes are also used to indicate possession, as
The camera's lenses are mounted on a turret.
The dog's bones are buried in the yard.
And them's the only uses of the apostrophe. (really. You can look it
up...) So where does that leave us?
Well, if we pretend Konvas is of Latin extraction (which it ain't) we'd have
2 Konvi (cf: focus, foci - kind of the same ballpark)
Maybe we should fall back on the old technique we have in English of just
adding -es, giving us 3 Konvases. A tad awkward, but no one ever said
language had to be pretty. We could use the Russian plural; unfortunately,
that uses a letter that does not exist in the Latin alphabet. Foiled again!
Yes, it's a quibble, and a detail. Now, a question: do you honestly think
your computer software would run if folk somewhere didn't pay attention to
the details? Do you think motion picture film would run through the camera,
let alone record an image if an army of folk didn't pay attention to
details? okay, okay: that was two questions. (Those were two questions,
for the pedants out there...) But they should make the point. Besides, I
had all this HAMMERED into me in grade school, and, by Harry, I want to
pontificate about it..... LOL.
If it matters to anyone at all, I have three Konvases. 8 Eyemos. 2
Fastaxes...Fasti...er...Fastices.... ummmm.... 2 stinkin' high-speed
cameras.... Then there's the 5 Bolexes. Boli? Bolices....? Bolae? ......
----------------------------------------
From Rick Tue Nov 6 07:38:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rick Garbutt
Date: Nov 05, 2001 23:38 PST
Peter!
You HAVE done a lot of homework! EXCELLENT posting.
But even "it depends" may yet be requalified.
>
>Techniscope was only viable as a circa 1960s wide screen format because
>Technicolor, which invented the format at it's Rome labs, and which
>controlled the format by it's own internal procedures, made the release
>prints by the "direct to matrix" method, which, of course, only Tech could
>provide.
The direct-to-matrix thingie is now irrelevant, most especially as Tech
themselves discontinued matrix printing many years ago, selling the
equipment to the communist Chinese. 2-perf and 4-perf intermediates and
masters can now be wonderfully done on the current crop of Ipos and Ineg
stocks. I haven't heard of anyone scanning 2-perf to do edit and FX in the
digital domain and then rewriting to 4-perf printing masters, but it should
work really, realllllly well.
The real essence of TScope (which we probably shouldn't call it any more,
lest we invoke the wrath of Technicolor's platoon of copyright lawyers) is
the 2-perf pulldown and perf-to-perf image width. If you take a hard look
at it, TScope has a lot of factors that suggest it SHOULD be the common
denominator for cinematography.
Some years ago, Rank Labs of Denham, England, published an article in the
BKSTS Journal, in which they did all the format-comparison math. Some
interesting results:
-Lopping 15% off the width of the TScope image leaves a frame virtually
identical to a 1.85 hard-matted image;
-That cropped image, with a little more crop, gives the 1.75 HDTV format,
without lopping actors' heads off- certainly a LOT better than taking a 1.37
image and hacking it down to 1.75;
-A vertical 2x enlargement, using an anamorph corrected all-to-blazes in an
optical printer, gives a full-frame 2.35 anamorphic print, same as TScope
did originally;
-(sigh) you can pan-and-scan a 1.33 image out of it for the Philistines who
want to rethink the camera operator's compositional art, on account of They
Know Better;
-producers are looking at 50% reductions or more in cost of negative stock
and processing (admittedly somewhat offset by the optical master costs).
Threadup and waste reduces dramatically: at 45 ft/minute, 100 feet is NOT a
waste end.
I've discussed 2-perf film with a number of colorists (My Fastax WF-7 shoots
2-perf for reasons of high-speed engineering compromises needed to shoot
8,000 frames/second) and they have all reacted with "WOW! COOL!!" or some
variant. Very particularly in the light of color negative film having been
improved no less than 8 times since TScope was invented and theatre screens
being, on average, smaller, 2-perf makes HUGE engineering and economic
sense.
Ironically, Technicolor themselves supressed TScope, as they felt it would
compromise their income to encourage a process that had producers sending in
50% of the usual film. well, DUH. Other side of that coin is a LOT of
projects that were shot 16mm could have been shot 35mm TScope. A pity.
Yet the phoenix may yet rearise: an entire feature film was shot in
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada this past summer in the 2-perf process, using, I
am told, a pair of 2-perf Moviecams flown in from Australia. So SOMEone has
this 2-perf thing figured out. (And you have to wonder about all the
experts braying about the "benefits" of 3-perf...which 2-perf outstrips by
another 50%!)
I would guess the production flow would go something like:
2-perf camera neg -> letterboxed video transfer for edit -> selected scenes
pulled for 2-perf to 4-perf optical master -> timed 4-perf master negative
with FX -> 4-perf answer and release prints in either anamorphic or 1.85
format.
Or 2-perf camera neg -> letterboxed video transfer for edit -> selected
scenes pulled for digital scanning, timing, FX, and rewriting to 4-perf
masters -> 4-perf answer and release prints. When this thing hits theater
screens and home video, I wonder, I just wonder how many in the Paying
Audience will stand up and bellow, "Wow! THAT"s sure grainy and fuzzy!" My
bet is not one human soul. Not one.
>
>And, the 2X 2.00:1 anamorphic release prints used a left and right mask on
>the prints. But the 1.5X 2.00:1 anamorphic release prints (abandoned) did not.
>
I have heard it said that the reason for those masks on the sides of the 2x
2.00:1 anamorphic prints was to get around 20th Century Fox's patents on
cinemaScope. We HAVE to thin out the lawyers!
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Tue Nov 6 08:26:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 06, 2001 00:26 PST
I have an Ostcam similar to Matt Z's, with a
moveable-for-Super-35 PL mount, and a modified 2M with
the same mount. I can't seem to tell from the pics on
Pat Steele's page whether that particular Ostcam has
a MOVEABLE Nikon Mount or not (I could assume, but
that wouldnt be right and proper). That is a question
for Matt Zatkoff. Generally, you want to install a
moveable mount so that you can shoot S35 if you have
to... At that point , in their Mods, Ostcam
followed the same design principles behind a R16/S16
switch-able camera, only not shift-on the-fly (if any
can truly be considered that...) and they likely
thought of the lens nodal-shift to which you were
referring... (so would the remanufacturing of 2M's by
Ostcam be considered ad-hoc? If you rebuild a Chevy,
only with your own styling, are you a manufacturer...
? ) The parts are still for a 2M, regardless of who
is making them and under what name (we are talking
lens mounts, GG, and aperture plates only, as the
motor designs have evolved past the 17ep...), and the
Ostcams that are still being produced (and they are)
have that feature.
> Well, if we pretend Konvas is of Latin extraction
> (which it ain't) we'd have
> 2 Konvi (cf: focus, foci - kind of the same
> ballpark)
Konvae?
> If it matters to anyone at all, I have three
> Konvases. 8 Eyemos. 2
> Fastaxes...Fasti...er...Fastices.... ummmm.... 2
> stinkin' high-speed
> cameras.... Then there's the 5 Bolexes. Boli?
> Bolices....? Bolae? ......
>
Hmmm...3:15am...My muttering ceases now, as I pass
out....
Bollox?
:)
Good night all....
Todd "Theres an H16J round here somewhere"
Liebman
3.1415329 cents to Jeff Kreines...
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Tue Nov 6 08:30:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2001 00:30 PST
In a message dated 11/5/01 11:38:51 PM, camradpt at ca.inter.net writes:
<<
The direct-to-matrix thingie is now irrelevant, most especially as Tech
themselves discontinued matrix printing many years ago ...
>>
"Direct to Matrix" is back. Has been for a few years.
Tech has done several features that way, on a limited basis.
And one feature was printed using dye-transfer exclusively. Others were
printed using dye-transfer, but just for the big-city theaters.
The early results were spotty ... literally (usually "specks", an indication
of improper washing of the matrices).
The latest runs were perfect as to the prints themselves, but the original
negative had lots of dupe sections which were scratched.
>>
... selling the equipment to the communist Chinese.
>>
All the Hollywood imbibition equipment was sold to Beijing Film, but the lab
was later summarily dispatched by a bulldozer in order to construct a parking
lot.
After this action, there was no dye-transfer equipment anywhere in the world.
The process was essentially "lost".
>>
... 2-perf and 4-perf intermediates and masters can now be wonderfully done
on the current crop of Ipos and Ineg stocks.
>>
True ... the current intermediate stock is astonishingly good.
Dupe materials are nearly indistinguishable from OCN materials.
>>
I haven't heard of anyone scanning 2-perf to do edit and FX in the digital
domain and then rewriting to 4-perf printing masters, but it should work
really, realllllly well.
>>
Underwater scenes in Titanic, where Cameron himself acted as the DP.
Panavision made a 2-perf camera especially for this shoot. Cameron has a
relative at Panavision, so perhaps a 2-perf conversion was an easy sell.
The reason for 2-perf was longer running time of the limited capacity of the
underwater camera.
Panavision is big for 3-perf, for TV shooting, and, in fact, "3 Perf" is a
registered trademark of Panavision.
>>
Yet the phoenix may yet rearise: an entire feature film was shot in
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada this past summer in the 2-perf process, using, I
am told, a pair of 2-perf Moviecams flown in from Australia. So SOMEone has
this 2-perf thing figured out. (And you have to wonder about all the
experts braying about the "benefits" of 3-perf...which 2-perf outstrips by
another 50%!)
>>
2-perf cameras made new at the factory included:
Arri, in it's 35CII configuration,
Mitchell, various models,
Cameraflex, a pre-WWII copy of an Arri 35,
ACME and Oxberry printer heads,
A few Panavisions, don't know which model, perhaps the Gold.
There are reported to be a few brand-new Arris in inventory
>>
I have heard it said that the reason for those masks on the sides of the 2x
2.00:1 anamorphic prints was to get around 20th Century Fox's patents on
cinemaScope. We HAVE to thin out the lawyers!
>>
Fox didn't care at all.
Anamorphic lenses, having been invented in the 1930s, were unprotectable by
patent.
Fox only cared if someone used the registered trademark "CinemaScope" without
paying the $25,000 license fee.
Warner's was exeempt from this as they agreed to abandon a competing process
(Vistarama), and in return Fox allowed them to release the several already
filmed features and allowed these to be attributed to CinemaScope.
Warner's later rented Fox's lenses, just as other producers did.
----------------------------------------
From Rick Tue Nov 6 09:08:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rick Garbutt
Date: Nov 06, 2001 01:08 PST
Peter!
More than just a little homework on your part. I salute you!
>
>All the Hollywood imbibition equipment was sold to Beijing Film, but the lab
>was later summarily dispatched by a bulldozer in order to construct a parking
>lot.
>
>After this action, there was no dye-transfer equipment anywhere in the
world. The process was >essentially "lost".
A crime against the culture of technology, if ever there was one. Real
Technicolor IB, done well (like at Technicolor London) was a thing of
amazing beauty.
>
>The reason for 2-perf was longer running time of the limited capacity of the
>underwater camera.
Indeed. In fact, shortly after JAWS ws released, there was a sort of
docuDrama called BLUE WATER, WHITE DEATH about great white sharks, shot
TScope for this very reason. Reloading underwater while 2 tons of guppy
bent on having you for lunch comes at you is a real nuisance.
>
>Panavision is big for 3-perf, for TV shooting, and, in fact, "3 Perf" is a
>registered trademark of Panavision.
I love Panavision stuff, but all their ideas weren't pearls beyond price.
Same with every equipment manufacturer. Probably a spinoff of the "you
can't please everybody all the time" syndrome.
>
Panavision also supplied a 2-perf Arri IIc with a "butterfly" (horizontal,
flat, lying behind the camera body for an ultra-low profile) magazine for
some of the car stunt stuff in the Tom Sellick picture RUNAWAY, filmed in
Vancouver some years ago. So there is stuff out there. The lore I've heard
is that TScope was more popular in Europe, partly because it was invented
there (Rome) and partly because European producers didn't have access to the
budgets their American counterparts did, so TScope was a workable
compromise.
Regards to all,
Rick
----------------------------------------
From matthew Tue Nov 6 12:11:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Ostcam stuff
From: matthew zatkoff
Date: Nov 06, 2001 04:11 PST
No the mount on my Ostcam doesn't move, strangely enough. I don't mind
though, because I am shooting my film in the super35 format, and loving the
results. I plan to make an annamorphic print from the original. About the
Ground Glass, I'll compare it to a Konvas whenever I get the chance (next
time I see pat), or I could measure it, and if one of you wants to measure
theirs, we could compare sizes to see if mine's the original, or a new one.
If anyone is still interested to know. I'm pretty sure it would be a larger
one.
(in regards to the animation questions, a while ago)
The Ostcam I have also has an intervalometer. I have shot animation and
time lapse with it and it doesn't leak light onto the film from around the
mirror when in stopped position as far as I can tell. It works very well
for animation, and it also has a frame counter to keep track! It's great.
So, assuming the inner-workings of the Konvas are still the same as the
Ostcam (i think they are). If you can find a motor to work with your
Konvas, give it a try. If not, I'll give you mine as a gift. I'm kidding.
Todd, where do you get your information about Ostcam, I still can't find
anything. Also, did yours come with any manuals, or info of any kind. Just
curious. Thanks!
Matt Zatkoff
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Tue Nov 6 15:48:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Ostcam stuff
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 06, 2001 07:48 PST
Non-moveable? Interesting- someone made a choice to
shoot S35 only... (-I will have to ask Russ at
Advanced Camera about that one-) . Ironically, all of
the goodies I have regarding the Osctam came from
Advanced Camera as well. (actually, due to your
recommendation:) I believe I have several manuals and
schematics. (Some of them are for some pretty weird
looking cameras I have never seen before, both pre and
post-35K). The Ostcam catalog is the best part- its
full of tidbits...
I wound up with several bodies for parts, umpteen
zillion mags, complete spare motor and controller for
a 35k (I REALLY needed one of those) and a bunch of
other stuff. Extension eyepiece, video tap, hand
grips, and spare movements,... I also have a 2M body
which pre-dates Ostcam by several years (1970!) which
is lead filled, pin registered, PL mount and has a
cool duvateen (or some type of similar material) layer
inside the movement /mount housing. (plus 2 other
bodies, a regular 2M, with a PL mount and one of which
is machined for some weird tap optics, and different
motor base, with an OCT-19 mount).
Except for the fact that the Ostcam has a 180
degree set of (worm-ish) type drive gears mounted on
the inside of the body where the tach pickup would be
on a 2M, and the sensor for the single frame advance,
they are identical. (You will find some 2Ms are also
pin registered) I am compiling pictures as I go, so I
should have something to post hopefully soon.
> (in regards to the animation questions, a while ago)
> The Ostcam I have also has an intervalometer. I
> have shot animation and
> time lapse with it and it doesn't leak light onto
> the film from around the
> mirror when in stopped position as far as I can
> tell. It works very well
> for animation, and it also has a frame counter to
> keep track! It's great.
> So, assuming the inner-workings of the Konvas are
> still the same as the
> Ostcam (i think they are). If you can find a motor
> to work with your
> Konvas, give it a try. If not, I'll give you mine
> as a gift. I'm kidding.
The sensor happens to be an integral part of the
proprietary 35K, does not exist in most 2M's and would
not work (without serious modification, not that it
couldnt be done) with a 17ep or 15ep motor. I know
that ther is a modification for the 2M that utilizes a
Cinematography Electronics base, and that it will set
you back the price of the base (about 6500) and then
some for the modification/adaptor. The port for a
17/15ep still exists on your 35K, but you would need
the bracketry to mount an older motor. The 2M is
strictly mechanical inside, no electronics.
> Todd, where do you get your information about
> Ostcam, I still can't find
> anything. Also, did yours come with any manuals, or
> info of any kind. Just
> curious. Thanks!
The sources are basically great people like those on
this list. In fact, mostly the people on this list.
Pat Steele's website is a very valuable repository of
information, as is Olexandr's site. Anatoly at Slow
Motion, Inc. has also been quite helpful- It would be
nice if Ostcam was more supportive, but they seem to
only sell complete camera packages. I have begged them
to sell me parts, but they insist I send them the
camera for repair.... (...all I wanted is a Konvas
mattebox! :) It would make things much easier if we
could purchase parts from them without sending camera
bodies back to Russia.
Ostcam doesent seem to have grasped the fact that
America is a viable market, or that there are numerous
2Ms in circulation here (not to mention all you Kinor,
Rodina, and Russian what-ever-flex- and-cam users out
there). If they supported their cameras the way other
manufacturers do, I would be willing to bet the 2M
designs would be as widely used as their western
counterparts, they'd sell a great deal more, and
enthusiasm would be way up....
In any case, I will see what I can do about scanning
some of what I have in to the old computer and Zap it
up somewhere....
More soon,
Todd Liebman
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Tue Nov 6 16:36:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: I think you meant "Hey Peter"
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 06, 2001 08:36 PST
haab at excite.com wrote:
> Todd "Theres an H16J round here somewhere"
>Liebman
>
>3.1415329 cents to Jeff Kreines...
I finally got a piece of the Pi...
----------------------------------------
From Ray Tue Nov 6 19:46:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Ray T
Date: Nov 06, 2001 11:46 PST
Hi All,
How does one tell if their 2M has an anamorphic ready gate? Is it marked
somewhere? How does it differ from an academy gate?
I shoot primarily 16mm and anamorphic shooting is completely foreign to
me.
Thanks,
Ray
----------------------------------------
From jean-marc Thu Nov 8 17:47:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Konvas and Animation
From: jean-marc ferriere
Date: Nov 08, 2001 09:47 PST
matt uhry wrote:
> You could shoot single frames quite easily with the correct stepper
> motor
> but the konvas's design is not good as far as light leaking around the
> mirror shutter. Animation cameras usually have focal plane shutters for
> this
> reason.
Mitchells are
> great for
> animation and cost a similar amount as a nice Konvas, it would be a
> better
> choice in all respects.
I agree with Matt and would add not to use a Mitchell S35 which does not
have the focal plane shutter built in originally.
I'd go for a rack-over model or a more recent Mitchell.
Does any one know of a Kinor web list?
Cheers
jean-marc
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Thu Nov 8 18:02:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Konvas and Animation
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 08, 2001 10:02 PST
jean-marc ferriere wrote:
>I agree with Matt and would add not to use a Mitchell S35 which does not
>have the focal plane shutter built in originally.
>I'd go for a rack-over model or a more recent Mitchell.
Actually, the S35 has a focal plane variable shutter behind the mirror
shutter.
But I'd agree that a rack-over Mitchell is a better choice for animation
or time-lapse.
----------------------------------------
From Anders Thu Nov 8 18:23:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Mitchell crystal motors
From: Anders Banke
Date: Nov 08, 2001 10:23 PST
Just wondering if anyone would know where to get a Fries or other Crystal
motor that would fit a Mitchell GC / Highspeed camera, in used but
reasonably good condition, at a good price.
This since I recently bought a 2KCK, which is a copy of the Mitchell, but
with a OCT-19 lens mount (no turret!), and a mirror reflex shutter (in
addition to the focal plane variable shutter). There viewfinder's switchable
to look through the gate / film plane, although I'm loosing this option
since I'm modifying the camera for video assist (didn't see much use for
looking through the gate anyway).
Very nice camera, but the high-speed motor is far from crystal...
Anders
--
Anders Banke
Solid Entertainment AB
St. Varvsg. 11K:1
211 19 MALMÖ
SWEDEN
T: (+46) 40 12 22 66
F: (+46) 40 12 22 64
M: (+46) 704 67 59 42
E: anders at solidentertainment.se
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Thu Nov 8 19:23:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Mitchell crystal motors
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2001 11:23 PST
In a message dated 11/8/01 10:23:33 AM, anders at solidentertainment.se writes:
<<
Just wondering if anyone would know where to get a Fries or other Crystal
motor that would fit a Mitchell GC / Highspeed camera, in used but reasonably
good condition, at a good price.
>>
Try to find an "orphan" DiGuilio/Cinema Products motor (one that was
"separated" from its NC or BNC).
DiGuilio purportedly "invented" the crystal motor, and even got an AA for his
"work", too.
But, there were crystal motors in use long before DiGuilio made his first
motor.
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Thu Nov 8 19:37:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Mitchell crystal motors
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 08, 2001 11:37 PST
I do have a Fries high-speed motor for the Mitchell -- up to 128 fps,
28v, crystal -- I'd let it go for $2000, a lot less than I paid for it.
Don't use it often enough.
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Thu Nov 8 19:42:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Mitchell crystal motors
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 08, 2001 11:42 PST
peterh5322 at aol.com wrote:
>Try to find an "orphan" DiGuilio/Cinema Products motor (one that was
>"separated" from its NC or BNC).
Those things are huge!
----------------------------------------
From matthew Thu Nov 8 21:42:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Konvas and Animation
From: matthew zatkoff
Date: Nov 08, 2001 13:42 PST
Upon closer examination I found that my Ostcam has some modifications to
stop any light from leaking around the shutter. I guess since this camera
was designed for timelapse they though of that too. So I guess that you
wouldn't want to try to use a Konvas for annimation unless they did the same
modification, which would probably make it not worth it. Unless you think
stuff like that is fun. Good luck to all.
Matt Zatkoff
----------------------------------------
From jean-marc Thu Nov 8 23:29:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Konvas and Animation
From: jean-marc ferriere
Date: Nov 08, 2001 15:29 PST
Jeff Kreines wrote:
>Actually, the S35 has a focal plane variable shutter behind the mirror
>shutter.
Yes, indeed, but I did experience light leaks (nice shape though)
on 2 different S35 due to long time exposure (1/4 of a second and longer) on
an animation shoot, and after inquiring I found out that various engineers
(including Mr Samuelson at Sammy's London) did weld an extra plate to avoid
any trouble on long time exposures.
>But I'd agree that a rack-over Mitchell is a better choice for animation
>or time-lapse.
Great to shoot live action with the rack-over !!
Jean-Marc
----------------------------------------
From Jeff Thu Nov 8 23:38:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Konvas and Animation
From: Jeff Kreines
Date: Nov 08, 2001 15:38 PST
jean-marc ferriere wrote:
>Great to shoot live action with the rack-over !!
Well, I generally do like non-reflex finders... but more in the Leica
mold than the Mitchell mold.
--Jeff "once had a rack-up Vistavision Mitchell" Kreines
----------------------------------------
From Christoph Fri Nov 9 02:07:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: Christoph Runne
Date: Nov 08, 2001 18:07 PST
thanks for all the advise.
I have some single frame frontscreen projections with an Arri st
( 16mm) That worked fine at the time. If I remember correctly there was a
modified stepper motor from a Bolex which was used on a JK Optical Printer.
I just bought a konvas 1 M and I think I like to try to shoot some test with
puppets. I wonder if the shutter on the konvas is similar to the Arri?
where could I get a motor modified for single steps?
Maybe Olexandr could do it?
He suggested to use the hand crank but I am worried about the exposure.
----------------------------------------
From eyesee2 at mindspring.com Fri Nov 9 16:04:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Mitchell crystal motors
From: eyesee2 at mindspring.com
Date: Nov 09, 2001 08:04 PST
greetings anders
in regards to finding a crystal motor for your camera,it is very much a buyers
market now.film production is in a steady decline in all the major markets. be
aware that equipment dealers are still trying to get top dollar for used
equipment.shop around,and you will find a motor that will not cost as much or
more than your camera. also if you are not aware and you recieve insync
magazine,these listings are by far the highest prices listed in the film
industry for used equipment.that said,i think buying russian 35mm equipment is
great,as you save a lot of money,and can afford film and telecine time.
matthew a hurley/ men of vision productions,atlanta,georgia
----------------------------------------
From peterh5322 at aol.com Fri Nov 9 16:33:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Mitchell crystal motors
From: peterh5322 at aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2001 08:33 PST
In a message dated 11/9/01 8:04:53 AM, eyesee2 at mindspring.com writes:
<<
also if you are not aware and you recieve insync magazine,these listings are
by far the highest prices listed in the film industry for used equipment.
>>
I'd say that In Sync prices are about double the current fair market value.
----------------------------------------
From jean-marc Fri Nov 9 19:03:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: jean-marc ferriere
Date: Nov 09, 2001 11:03 PST
>puppets. I wonder if the shutter on the konvas is similar to the Arri?
>
>where could I get a motor modified for single steps?
>Maybe Olexandr could do it?
>He suggested to use the hand crank but I am worried about the exposure.
Have a go at the hand crank,
We shot a short entitled "Convass" with the... 1M at around 12 f/s ,
great speed to get uneven exposure:-)
The handcrank from the Cameflex is better at 1 f/s but I'd try it with the
2M: always shoot a test!
Cheers
Jean-Marc
----------------------------------------
From patrick Fri Nov 9 23:25:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: patrick Steele
Date: Nov 09, 2001 15:25 PST
Christoph,
If you or someone you know is handy with building/modifying motors, go to
this web page:
http://reimari.saunalahti.fi/~animato/
This is the domain of a Finnish animator. One of his links takes you step by
step through building an animation motor for a Bolex largely using off teh
shelf components. I think his directions could be easily modified and
adapted to a Konvas 1M/2M.
Hope this helps. If you do it, keep the rest of us apprised! : )
Good luck,
patrick
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Fri Nov 9 23:57:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re[2]: Konvas and Animation
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 09, 2001 15:57 PST
Hello,
I have four LOMO made lenses for sale.
Lenses has OCT-19 mount and will fits on Konvas 2M and Kinor 35H, 35C
cameras. Thank you. Questions and more detailed pictures are welcome.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1295692858
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From haab at excite.com Sun Nov 11 01:22:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Parts
From: haab at excite.com
Date: Nov 10, 2001 17:22 PST
Hi all-
Your friendly neighborhood 'tinkering'
cinematographer here... Looking to find out if anyone
has any old junked 17ep motors/housings/parts or
junked 15ep motors/controllers that are just laying
around that they would be willing to sell cheaply for
a sort of science project ....
Feel free to contact me on or off list-
Many thanks,
Todd
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Mon Nov 12 02:14:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Kinor 16mm
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 11, 2001 18:14 PST
Hello,
Is there are anybody own Kinor-16 camera and using it?
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From Mike Mon Nov 12 03:53:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: NEEDED: 2m Mirror!! 17ep Motor
From: Mike Prevette
Date: Nov 11, 2001 19:53 PST
Hello,
I got my 2m and guess what, the mirror is all scratched to hell and is
either distorted or way off balance, because the image jumps around when
the camera is running. It jumps around so much the image in the finder
is almost useless. So I need a new or slightly used mirror if anyone has
any leads I would greatly apreciate it.
Also I would love to upgrade to a 17ep if anyone is selling one.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thank You
Mike Prevette
mikep at bigbangseattle.com
----------------------------------------
From Mike Mon Nov 12 03:58:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Congrats to our very own Matt Uhry
From: Mike Prevette
Date: Nov 11, 2001 19:58 PST
In case you all havn't read. Matt had a great write up in the back of
American Cinematographer for his recent Nutra-Grain spots. The article
mentions his "Russian Anamorphic camera" and how usefull it was in
convincing a director to avoid the video route.
Once again congrats on the PR!
Mike Prevette
Seattle konvas owner / AC
----------------------------------------
From Anders Mon Nov 12 07:24:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas and Animation
From: Anders Banke
Date: Nov 11, 2001 23:24 PST
Vasily Fursov wrote:
>
>
> I have four LOMO made lenses for sale.
> Lenses has OCT-19 mount and will fits on Konvas 2M and Kinor 35H, 35C
> cameras. Thank you. Questions and more detailed pictures are welcome.
Vasily, those lenses will most likely not fit the Kinor 35H or 35C, as
the angle between the reflex mirror and the film plane is different than
for the Druzhba/Souyuz cameras, for which these lenses were made
(basically the back of the lens will hit the mirror on the Kinor). Or
have they been modified to fit the Kinor (they don't look like they
are)?
They should fit any Konvas 2M no problem, though.
--
Anders Banke
----------------------------------------
From Christian Mon Nov 12 14:02:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Kinor 16mm
From: Christian Locke
Date: Nov 12, 2001 06:02 PST
Hi,
As I wrote before that I´m using the kinor 16 CX in professional way. I´ve
one Kinor 16 CX 1M, and four 16 CX 2M, and all stuff (macs, primes,
repair-cits ......)
At least I have also two Arriflex, but I perfer more the Kinor´s .
One month ago I was again in Russia for four weeks, to finish my road
movie...
So, as in most time the Kinor´s are working perfekt ... Only the engine of
the 1M strikes on the first day ... Luckely I got the last new engine from the
local television studio ... so we could start working on the next day. The
russion electronic is unfortunally the only bad part of the camera. For all
case I´ve enough spare parts I bought on the electronic market in Moscou, but
to change only the engine is much more easyer. Mostly I used the 1M with
turret and fixed primes. There must be some more people in Germany who have these
cameras but I haven´t heard from anybody really using thes cameras.
In result the Kinors have great primes, a very stable picture ... and they
are not really quit.
The thing of great importance is the point that you have for every camera
there own macs. All macs are looking the same, but every camera has her
personal macs, witch where always adopted for each camera in the studios, because
of some small manu-factoring tolerances.
But at least ihe 16mm Kinor is a great, but unknown camera ...
Greetings from Cologne, Germany
Christian
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Mon Nov 12 23:39:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re[2]: Konvas and Animation
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 12, 2001 15:39 PST
Hello Anders,
Monday, November 12, 2001, 9:24:12 AM, you wrote:
AB> Vasily Fursov wrote:
>> I have four LOMO made lenses for sale.
>> Lenses has OCT-19 mount and will fits on Konvas 2M and Kinor 35H, 35C
>> cameras. Thank you. Questions and more detailed pictures are welcome.
AB> Vasily, those lenses will most likely not fit the Kinor 35H or 35C, as
AB> the angle between the reflex mirror and the film plane is different than
AB> for the Druzhba/Souyuz cameras, for which these lenses were made
AB> (basically the back of the lens will hit the mirror on the Kinor). Or
AB> have they been modified to fit the Kinor (they don't look like they
AB> are)?
AB> They should fit any Konvas 2M no problem, though.
Thank you Anders. When I wrote description I used next source:
http://homepage.mac.com/karmitz/KINOR35H.htm
And there wroted (by you):
===============================================================
If you find yourself lucky enough to find and buy a 35H, keep
these two helpful items from Anders Banke in mind:
"All Kinor 35 lenses fit the 2M, but not all 2M lenses fit the
Kinor. The flange focal distance is exactly the same. However,
on the Kinor 35 the angle between the mirror and the mount isn't
45 degrees as is the standard in most cameras (including the 2M),
but less than that, some 2M lens backs will make unwanted contact
with the mirror. To avoid this, the Kinor 35 mount is designed not
to accept these lenses. Most 2M lenses between 22mm and 75mm will
fit a Kinor, whereas a 150mm lens will not. The newer the lens, the
more likely it is to fit both cameras."
===============================================================
So, that's why I decide it will fit Kinor 35. But of course you
know better. Thank you - I will make corrections in description.
Also, as I understand Druzhba and Soyuz have the same bayonet mount
OCT-19? Right? Thank you for helpful information. I think it will
be intrested not for me only.
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From jackd at execpc.com Tue Nov 13 23:56:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: 1 SKL-TEMP
From: jackd at execpc.com
Date: Nov 13, 2001 15:56 PST
I've written to a few of you individually, but any input from the group
would be appreciated.
I'm curious if anyone has had any experience with TEMPs. I'd love to get
my hands on one to rebuild & retrofit w/ a crystal speed motor. Any
thoughts, insights, experience?
Thanks,
Jack
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Wed Nov 14 18:44:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re[2]: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 14, 2001 10:44 PST
Hello Matt and all others!
We can produce any film gates for Konvas cameras. No problems with
standard and wide screen gates - we know their dimensions. But as I
can see, there several types of s-35 formats (regarding aspect
ratio). So, if anyone want to have some specific gate(s), just let
me know precise dimensions of the window for desired gate.
We'll make it within 2 weeks. Price is $65 for any gate. Discounts
for ordering more then 1 gate.
As to ground glasses, we can't make them...
--
Best regards,
Rafael
----------------------------------------
From jean-marc Wed Nov 14 20:44:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Re[2]: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: jean-marc ferriere
Date: Nov 14, 2001 12:44 PST
Rafael wrote:
We can produce any film gates for Konvas cameras. No problems with
> standard and wide screen gates - we know their dimensions.
Rafael,
can you produce gates for Kinor 35H cameras?
Jean-Marc Ferriere.
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Fri Nov 16 22:28:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Konvas 400ft (120m) mags for sale
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 16, 2001 14:28 PST
Hello All,
I have two 400 ft mags for sale. Links are below:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1298521483
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1298525427
Thank you!
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Fri Nov 16 22:53:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: 35mm projection lens
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 16, 2001 14:53 PST
Hello,
I have Russian 35mm projector lens:
1. f=120mm, relative aperture 1.8
2. f=120mm, relative aperture 1.8
3. Anamorphic attachment for 35mm projector for
projection lens from f=80 to f=140, focusing 9m to infinity
if anybody need it - please let me know. Thank you.
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From Jacob Sat Nov 17 10:40:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Kinor 35H or 35C?
From: Jacob Lane
Date: Nov 17, 2001 02:40 PST
Hello Russians!
Does anyone know which of the 35mm kinors is the 'best' camera?
I have heard rumblings that the (earlier) 35C is quieter, and although
heavier can be converted to video assist easily compared to the 35H.
Also, if shooting with Anamorphic lenses which gate is required!
Has anyone got a 22mm anamophic lens for sale and an anamorphic
viewfinder for the kinor???
Thankyou
Jacob
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Sat Nov 17 18:40:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: anamorphic projector lens
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 17, 2001 10:40 PST
Hello everybody,
Does anyone interested in this item?
I listed it on eBay with $99 start price without reserv.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1298814508
--
Best regards,
Rafael
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Sat Nov 17 19:07:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: anamorphic projector lens
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 17, 2001 11:07 PST
Hello everybody,
Now images are visible ;-)
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1298814508
--
Best regards,
Rafael
----------------------------------------
From Christian Mon Nov 19 09:42:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Kinor 16mm
From: Christian Locke
Date: Nov 19, 2001 01:42 PST
Hi Vasily,
you wanted to know anything about using the kinor 16 CX .... Is there a
special question ... because of no answer from your side ...
Greetings from Cologne, Germany
Christian
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Thu Nov 22 13:19:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: RE: Re[2]: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 22, 2001 05:19 PST
Yes, I thibk. But I have no cpecs for it. Do you? Just give me precise
drawing, and we'll make it within 2 weeks.
----------------------------------------
From eyesee2 at mindspring.com Fri Nov 23 14:04:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Re[2]: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: eyesee2 at mindspring.com
Date: Nov 23, 2001 06:04 PST
Matt Hurley wrote
Does anyone out there have information regarding ,The SPUTNIK 35 MM motion
picture camera,s.It is very similar to the konvas,as to having a turret
mount, and the same lense mount as the konvas.This is where the similarity
stops.The SPUTNIK 35MM has two hand grips.One on either side of the
camera.One grip when turned controls focus and the other when a zoom lens
is mounted,the focal length of the zoom.The camera speeds are 8-64FPS. the
camera has the same setup reflex wise as the Konvas 1m.Only came in 400ft
mag capacity.motors were either governed or variable,and a sync motor was
made.camera came pakaged with a gyro tripod.If anyone has any info please
let me know.
----------------------------------------
From Ray Tue Nov 27 06:16:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: LOMO Anamorphic Lenses For Sale
From: Ray T
Date: Nov 26, 2001 22:16 PST
Hi all,
I have 3 Russian Anamorphic Lenses up for auction on ebay. A 50mm, 75mm,
and 100mm. I don't have pics posted for the 100, but it looks similar to
the 50 and 75, only longer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1302255484
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1302259202
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1302273892
Thanks,
Ray
----------------------------------------
From jean-marc Tue Nov 27 12:44:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: LOMO Anamorphic Lenses For Sale
From: jean-marc ferriere
Date: Nov 27, 2001 04:44 PST
Ray,
I'm interested with your 100 mm but would like to see a picture.
I have a 35H.
In what state/cond is it?
I could not see any pic thru your html addresses below.
Any correction to get it working?
Do I have to bid thru Ebay or can we do that directly person to person?
Thanks,
Bye for now!
Jean-Marc Ferriere, DP, Paris, France.
----------------------------------------
From Lael Tue Nov 27 13:24:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: My 2M on Ebay
From: Lael Camak
Date: Nov 27, 2001 05:24 PST
Hey Guys,
I don't normally post what I'm selling here, but this is an extremely nice
2M package. I'm upgrading and hate to sell this one, but can't justify
keeping it. It is almost new and the cleanest 2M I have ever run across.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1301123206
Thanks,
Lael
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Wed Nov 28 02:19:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Kinor 16mm
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 27, 2001 18:19 PST
Hello Christian,
Monday, November 19, 2001, 11:42:17 AM, you wrote:
CL> you wanted to know anything about using the kinor 16 CX .... Is there a
CL> special question ... because of no answer from your side ...
CL> Greetings from Cologne, Germany
Sorry for delay. Anders Banke already reply me with all information I
need. He answered all my questions directly, not in Konvas forum.
Thanks a lot for all, who helped me.
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From Vasily Wed Nov 28 02:24:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: wide screen film gate for Konvas cameras
From: Vasily Fursov
Date: Nov 27, 2001 18:24 PST
Hello eyesee2,
Friday, November 23, 2001, 4:07:51 PM, you wrote:
emc> Does anyone out there have information regarding ,The SPUTNIK 35 MM motion
emc> picture camera,s.It is very similar to the konvas,as to having a turret
emc> mount, and the same lense mount as the konvas.This is where the similarity
emc> stops.The SPUTNIK 35MM has two hand grips.One on either side of the
emc> camera.One grip when turned controls focus and the other when a zoom lens
emc> is mounted,the focal length of the zoom.The camera speeds are 8-64FPS. the
emc> camera has the same setup reflex wise as the Konvas 1m.Only came in 400ft
emc> mag capacity.motors were either governed or variable,and a sync motor was
emc> made.camera came pakaged with a gyro tripod.If anyone has any info please
emc> let me know.
I can scan images from Russian tech book about this camera. And can
translate description. Unfortunately there not a lot of information
about this camera. All main differences you already know.
--
Best regards,
Vasily mailto:Vasily at e-trade.dn.ua
----------------------------------------
From Tommy Wed Nov 28 22:20:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: LOMO Anamorphic Lenses For Sale
From: Tommy Harden
Date: Nov 28, 2001 14:20 PST
--- Ray T wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have 3 Russian Anamorphic Lenses up for auction on
> ebay. A 50mm, 75mm,
> and 100mm. I don't have pics posted for the 100, but
> it looks similar to
> the 50 and 75, only longer.
>
>
Would these lenses fit a Konvas 1M or are they only
compatible with the 2M? I'm not real confident around
my mounts yet.
thanks, Tommy
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Thu Nov 29 14:19:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Konvas-8M
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 29, 2001 06:19 PST
Hello everybody,
Do anyone interested in BRAND NEW Konvas-8M (full electrics set,
manual, 4 standard lenses, KS reg.pins - may be modified, but should
run with B&H negative film without conversion)?
--
Best regards,
Rafael Pankratau mailto:rafcamera at yahoo.com
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Thu Nov 29 19:42:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Konvas-7M
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 29, 2001 11:42 PST
Hello everybody,
It is strange silence within few hours...
OK, how about brand new Konvas-7M? Similar outfit.
I just need to know is there anyone who needs one of these cameras
(7M or 8M) to decide - should I take a long trip to buy one of them.
Thanks
--
Best regards,
Rafael Pankratau mailto:rafcamera at yahoo.com
----------------------------------------
From Photography Thu Nov 29 19:49:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: Re: Konvas-7M
From: Photography by Sammy
Date: Nov 29, 2001 11:49 PST
Yea, I would be interested in the 8M. Please contact me so we can discuss
it further.
Sammy Popov
Director of Photography
Xtreme Xposure, Ltd.
702-434-2184 or 702-612-1100
http://www.sammyshots.com
http://www.XtremeXposureLtd.com
----------------------------------------
From Rafael Fri Nov 30 17:35:00 2001
To: the konvas discussion list
Subject: wide screen film gates and super speed lenses OCT-19
From: Rafael Pankratau
Date: Nov 30, 2001 09:35 PST
Hello,
I have listed 4 wide screen film gates for Konvas (dutch auction)
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1304386895
and set of 4 super speed lenses with OCT-19 mount (for Konvas-2M,
-8M, and, may be, Kinor-35)
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1304387922
Feel free to ask any questions.
--
Best regards,
Rafael Pankratau mailto:rafcamera at yahoo.com